S2 Ep 4: Guat's Up? Cacao Adventures in Guatemala

In this episode, Jenn and Tammy talk about Jenn's recent trip to Guatemala and how the spirit of cacao, the sacred plant medicine of cacao, has changed her life.

For more information on cacao ceremonies, ceremonial grade cacao or benefits and risks of cacao, reach out to Jenn directly through her website: www.spiritandherb.com or go directly to the product page at http://www.keithscacao.com/discount/SpiritAndHerb. 

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Transcript

Jenn: Hey, everybody. I'm Jenn. 

Tammy: And I'm Tammy. 

Jenn: And they call us Woo!

Tammy: Welcome back, everybody. Today we get to talk to Jenn about a super exciting thing she just got to do, which is to go to Guatemala. And it was specific to her journey with Cacao and Cacao ceremonies and where it comes from and all these wonderful, beautiful things. And we thought it would be really fun to talk about what happened while you were there and get to share more stuff about that. So 

Jenn: yeah

Tammy: yeah. Where do you, where should we dive in? 

Jenn: I'm not even sure. I bawled my face off for like seven days straight while I was there. So I was gone for eleven days. 

Tammy: ohh, I don’t mean oh bad I mean, oh wow. 

Jenn: No. Yeah. No. Like it was a beautiful, very healing experience. As most ceremonies are like, you walk through all of your junk, and this trip was no different. I fully expected it. I just did not fully expect seven days of me crying, like at the very beginning. So. So it was really interesting. I guess, I could start with why the heck I went to Guatemala. 

Tammy: Yeah, that's a great place to start. 

Jenn: So for a very long time I have been using ceremonial cacao in my own practices to help me ground and balance. Like when I do channeling work, When I do other healing work, I'll often take like cacao or what I thought was good cacao before, like really dark chocolate to ground myself. 

Tammy: Oh, that makes sense because I think you told me that you used to do the dark chocolate thing. And I was like, How long have you been doing this? Okay, so you've been drawn to it for a long time. 

Jenn: Yes. And so I have done a lot of ceremonies with different people. And I found that I was very, very called to the practice of using cacao, like when I would eat cacao. For those who don't know, cacao is like raw. Well, it's really fermented chocolate in its most raw form. So it's comes from the cacao pod. It's, I should have brought my cacao pod in the room. Darn it! I have a cacao pod I brought home. 

Tammy: There's some really cool YouTube videos out there that show the the making of it and harvesting and everything. That would be kind of cool. 

Jenn: Yes. So, so it's, it's like the most pure form of chocolate that you can get. It's like super, super dark chocolate. It can be a little bit bitter, but it's cacao. It has not been processed into what we consider chocolate here. What we consider chocolate here is very different. 

Tammy: It is very different. 

Jenn: And so I had been very, very called to use it ceremonially and to use it to ground myself. But I found that a lot of the ceremonies that I walked through were very strict. People were the people who were leading them were very much on on their own shamanic path, like this is the way that they were trained or this is the way they felt called to use it. It just didn't resonate with me. It was very, very strict. Like, you can't add anything to your cacao, you need to drink it straight. So it's super bitter. The more bitter, the better. Like, and I have always found that cacao is a very joyful, playful energy. And so to 

Tammy: You are like, it is too sweet for that. 

Jenn: Yes. And so, like, the energy is sweet, but the cacao itself is very, very bitter.

And so it's like I would drink it feeling all the sweetness inside, but going, uuuuggghh, I hate this. Why do I want to this? And it just didn't fit and I couldn't figure out why. And I was called, I've been called for the last 11 years to become a practitioner using cacao. 

Tammy: Girl, you've been held for 11 years and you just did it?

Jenn: Yes. 

Tammy: Well, I'm glad you did. 

Jenn: You know me. I push back. I'm like, Nope, not time. I'm not doing that. Well, and I figured out why. Because for the last 11 years, I have been using products that weren't necessarily processed in a loving manner and weren't necessarily processed in the energy of the cacao. 

Tammy: You needed to find the right, the right one that fit.

Jenn: Yeah. 

Tammy: All the, checked all the boxes. 

Jenn: Yes. But because I was doing ceremony with people who were very strict and like this needs to be bitter and this needs to be whatever. I didn't understand that there was something different, and it just goes to show you learn and grow the more that you do things and the more that you listen. And so I had these products that I had gotten from Ecuador and from Peru that were listed a ceremonial grade and all of these things. And I would use those. And my fiance came back from our retreat with a friend of ours, and he had just tried ceremonial cacao for the first time because he doesn't eat chocolate. So he never used cacao even when I had it. Like it was just not something we did. And he decided to try it. Well, he was at a retreat and he was like, This is delicious and it doesn't have sugar in it. So he felt okay to use it. And he came home. And for my birthday last year, was it last year or the year before? One of the two, he bought me a pound, a whole block of cacao from this company. And he's like all excited to give this to me. And I looked it up and the man who runs this company, I will, warning to everybody, you're going to see Jenn's judgy side come out because I went, I full on went the cultural appropriation route. Like the man who runs this company is a white dude who moved to Guatemala and started making this product. And I will talk more about that in a second. And so I got real judgy and I was like, I ain't eating that. I'm just not. And so it sat in our pantry for six months and after six months, my fiance was like, Hey, let's have some good go. And he made it for me. And I took my first sip of it I didn't put anything in it. I took my first of it and went, This is the most delicious cacao I’ve ever had. And I was like, It's either because he put so much love into it that it's just so lovely or there's something different. And he told me that he used the new cacao, and I was like, All right, what's the deal with this cacao? Because I know that it's ceremonial grade. So I went online and I researched and I found out that this white dude who moved to Guatemala is actually the man who brought it back into ceremonial use all over the world. 

Tammy: Wow. 

Jenn: He, his name is Keith. Keith Wilson. He actually just recently passed away, but he was a geologist who was traveling all over the world. He was a healer and the cacao spirit. So the spirit that sits within the cacao plant, the plant medicine itself came to him and said, you need to bring this back to the Western world, like I will lead you in this and I want you to bring this back to be used. 

Tammy: Can I tell you something super interesting?

Jenn: Yes

Tammy: for one moment. So I have someone I know who listens to our podcast, who I spoke with last week, who is doing or has just completed a cacao ceremony. She first heard about it on her podcast from you and she's like, what’s this cacao stuff? And then got like two more signs very briefly after that where she's like, Okay, clearly if I'm getting all this like you, you should do it. And we had this whole conversation about how interesting it is that like the awareness around it is spreading. And she made a specific comment about maybe we all need it right now. Maybe there's a reason it's all coming out right now. And I was like, Yeah, probably. So 

Jenn: Yes

Tammy: It sounds very fitting with what you're describing. 

Jenn: Yes. So the cacao spirit came to Keith and said, I will lead you to the right places. And so he was connecting with cacao and he was searching all over to find where it was used in the ancient traditions. And he has researched this so much like he knows more about it than a lot of the Mayan people that are using it in ceremonies. And he brought those traditions back and started teaching people, and he eventually ended up meeting. I can't remember who he met, but it was somebody who was like in the science field who was working with specific tribes in Guatemala area. And she took him in to meet the tribes that were actually still using it ceremonially. And they taught him. And so he started teaching other people about it and had been doing this for over 20 years. And he became known as the chocolate shaman in that area and around the world. And so he's actually the person, so the person that I was judging for, like stealing people's traditions, which is really funny because I'm always worried that people think that about me. So it was a learning experience, it was a mirroring opportunity for me to see my own flaws. He's the one who actually started teaching people how to use it appropriately. 

Tammy: It's really beautiful though, because, 

Jenn: yeah

Tammy: you know, the idea behind appropriation is when people are taking power away from someone, right? And yeah, that's kind of the opposite. If he was not only welcomed but what was like, Hey, I discovered that in the past people in your ancestral land did these things. Do you want to know about it? And they're like, Cool, let's go to the insets. I think that's really cool. 

Jenn: Yeah, well, cacao was used in a lot of mayan and Incan ancient traditions, and there was never a full ceremony around it. So it was used as part of ceremonies, but it never had a full ceremony itself. So when you look at other plant medicines, there are very specific rituals and very specific things that are very traditional, and you have to use them that way, like in those traditions. And so when he started teaching, he's like, you listen to the medicine, you listen to where she's leading you, you do ceremony as you feel called to do ceremony. And so it's like there's no set ritual or no set tradition that you have to do. 

Tammy: So this one is different in the sense that the energy behind it was like, there's a reason there's not a specific way this has to be done. 

Jenn: Yes. 

Tammy: Because everybody who's called to it needs to be able to experience it in their own way.

Kind of. 

Jenn: Yes. Yes. And so, like Mama cacao is very playful and very loving and very generous and very kind. And so one of the things that we talked about in our training is how when you're listening to Mama cacao, the Cacao spirit, she leads you to the door of what you need to see. And instead of shoving you through like other plant medicines do, she says, You're here. I'll hold your hand. Do you want to walk through the door? 

Tammy: That’s beautiful. 

Jenn: And so, it's like, when I drink cacao nine times out of ten, I start bawling. Because I can just feel how much love and how much compassion there is behind that plant medicine. And so I do a whole lot of processing while drinking my cacao Because you usually make it into a drink. You can make it into like little balls too. They call them bliss balls in our training, I would make my bliss balls a little bit sweeter than they make their bliss balls. But that's, that's one of the things that we talk about in our training is everybody is called to do this differently. If you need to add sweetener, you're not depleting the energy of the medicine. You're just making it something that you enjoy and something that will hold you in the space that you're in. So I learned that I didn't need to make the bitter face every time I drink my cacao, I could put a little bit of maple syrup in there and I could honor both plant medicines. I could honor the medicine of the maple trees and the medicine of the cacao. And so it made it much more enjoyable for me. 

Tammy: Yeah. 

Jenn: And pushed me a little bit. It gave me a little bit of a nudge to say, Hey, I actually found somebody that I trust to learn from that is showing me that this is about the ceremony that I feel called to bring to the people. And a lot of the energy that I put into it can be brought with love instead of me going, Whoa, uuugghh, this is really bitter. You're probably not going to like it, It's really going to help you open up your heart. Because that's probably not going to work for anybody. But yeah, so that leads me to why I ended up going to Guatemala. So I've been feeling called for a long time. My fiance decided to sign himself up to take the practitioner training while I was out of town, and when I found out I was like, What? That's not fair. And so for Christmas, I purchased myself the practitioner training and him and I went through the training together. And the first couple of days after we started the training spirit came to me and told me that Keith was not going to be on this Earth plane very much longer and that I needed to go to Guatemala and and I was listening. And I knew that if Spirit was telling me that, that it was going to be fairly quick and I was like, I don't know how to get to Guatemala. I know nothing about Guatemala. And am I just going to show up at this dude's door because I thought it was You're supposed to meet Keith, like you need to go and meet Keith. You need to understand this medicine. And so I had this, like, anxiety about I need to get to Guatemala, I need to go. And the next day I get an email in my inbox saying, Hey, there's going to be a homecoming in Guatemala for this company, Keith's cacao. And I was like, Well, crap, I need to go to Guatemala. This is a good way to go. And so we figured it out. I signed up to go on this trip, and then when I was on a different trip, I woke up in the middle of the night and there was this beautiful ball of light dancing at the end of my bed. And it was Keith. And he said, I'm not on this earth plane anymore. And us telling you was the only way that we knew we could get you to go back there. And you need to go to Guatemala. You need to go there because it was your home. And so it was this, this beautiful recollection of, I've had lifetimes there before. I've been connected to this medicine for a long time, and Spirit knows me well enough that unless I get a big push, I'm not going to just uproot and be like, I'm going to go to Guatemala. Like, that's just not how I am. So, so Keith confirmed for me, like we had to tell you because we knew that you would feel a sense of urgency to go because you would think that you needed to meet me.  And so I went. So that is how I ended up in Guatemala. That was a very long story. Sorry for that. 

Tammy: It was good. Good information in there. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Tammy: It was beautiful the way that it rolled out. And, you know, we all need our energetic pushes sometimes. 

Jenn: Sometimes more than others. Always more than others. 

Tammy: But you did it and that's the important part. 

Jenn: I did. Yes. And it was slightly terrifying, for anybody who knows me. I do not know Spanish and I don't like to go places that I don't know the language because I feel like a rude jerk not speaking their language. 

Tammy: It was really hilarious in my head when I think like two weeks before you left or whatever, you're like, I'm trying to learn Spanish. I’m like, in my head and like, All right, good luck, Good luck learning a language and two weeks. Have fun. 

Jenn: To be fair, I had a whole month, maybe a little bit longer than a month that I was trying to learn. And I did pretty darn good considering. 

Tammy: Good. 

Jenn: But I was still really nervous about speaking Spanish. Everybody there, though, is super, super sweet and the majority of them speak English. So when I would panic, I would, I would literally plan out what I was going to say to people in the hotel for an hour before I would go down into the lobby, and then I'd get down into the lobby and they would look at me and they'd go, Hi, how are you today? And I would completely freeze and then I would start speaking in English because I was just like, ahhhh! I don't know how many people I told I was practicing what I was going to say, and now I'm just all discombobulated. And they would laugh and they'd be like, You can try if you'd like. And I'd be like, I can't remember any of my words now. It was ridiculous. But I had a lot of really good learning moments there, and a lot of…we had the first six days that I was down there, we had at least two ceremonies a day, so we were constantly drinking cacao, eating cacao beans and doing a whole lot of healing work. So we did shamanic journeying, we did estatic dance, We did we had a whole dance party. We even had a DJ. He was really good DJ. We did sound therapy. We did meditations. So we had all kinds of different healing opportunities while we were there. And like I said, for the first like six, seven days, I just cried and cried and cried. And there was two of the practitioners who did one of the ceremonies.

It was like they were talking about healing in your relationship. So having a spiritual relationship with each other and being able to connect on a very spiritual level and knowing that you don't need your partner, you want your partner to be there and you don't need to do their work for them, You want to be there to walk with them through it. And like it was beautiful to hear that because my, my partner and I have talked about working with people in that capacity because that's how our relationship is. And that session in particular, I wept like I have never wept and I have never been in a space like every single one of the healing containers that we were in. Each one of the facilitators held these beautiful spaces for people to heal however they needed to heal. So I've been to a lot of healing ceremonies over the years, and some of those ceremonies you can tell people are like, I'm going to heal on the surface, but I'm not going to dive deeper because I'm in this room with people and I don't want anybody to think I'm weird. This was not like that at all. Nobody gave a flying bleep about what anybody else was thinking about them when they're in that space. It was like you were in your process and whatever noises came out of your mouth or your body, everything was fair game. Like, I have never been in a space where I've had so many healing experiences, where I've heard people actually like, really let things out. And it's a beautiful testament to the power of cacao and having facilitators who hold that space, that safe space for people to really be raw and really let things out. And it was beautiful. 

Tammy: can I say I appreciate the way that you described it to me too? Because for our listeners, Jenn was kind enough to share as a gift some of her cacao with me, and when I first had it, I wasn't, I wasn't particularly drawn to it for the first maybe months or I don't remember somewhere around that time that I had it. And then now I know there was other things that needed to happen before then. Certain connections that needed to be made. And perhaps we'll talk about the insane, insane amount of things that happened with me in another podcast too. But that was the first time that I drank it. You had described kind of like what to do and like how to connect and just, you know, sit with it and allow it to be a whole like process of enjoyment, you know, smell it and taste it and add what you feel called to add to it. For me, it was honey and cinnamon that I needed to add to it, which it really was delicious, by the way. And you had also told me that it could be such like a powerful healing thing. And I was, I was in the zone that day that clearly needed to happen for a reason. And I ended up having a pretty interesting conversation with my husband, too, which did involve like tears and conversation and clarity. And yeah, it was just like things just kind of bubbled up to the surface that you just, it's maybe things that were in there, maybe you knew about them, maybe you didn't like. I kind of knew something was there, but also it was like, okay, well, I guess now's the time that we're talking about this. This is the way it's going. But it was so like afterwards, it was such like a like a relief, like a pfffew. Okay. So I appreciate not only that, you I mean, you're such a loving person, but not only you. You shared it in love. I know you put some of your love into it when you gave it to me. So it was just, 

Jenn: of course

Tammy: beautiful amount of, like, love coming from the medicine, coming from mama cacao and then coming from the universe just kind of like, you know, holding you. So, like, the space was being held for me by everything, if that makes sense. 

Jenn: Heck yeah. 

Tammy: And I mean my poor husband. I don't think you knew it was coming, but. But it was good, though. It was really good. It was a really good opportunity for us. And it was a very like kind thing ultimately, that was was had of it. And then after that I was like, Wow, why was she like, This is something she was really right about all of this. But it is interesting how much it had to be like it had to be the right way for me. But when it happened, it was a perfect opportunity to get some of that. So I think that would be really amazing to be in a whole group of people who are like way on board with it and are just like, You know what? I'm going to release whatever needs to be released. We'll see what happens. 

Jenn: Yeah, Yeah. Well, and I there was one experience where we were, we had to pair off with people and this was, I think, day two or day three. And I don't know if I've talked a lot about this in other episodes, but I've had a lot of like trauma with men in my life. Like I've had a lot of sexual trauma in my past and I've had a lot of trauma with like men who don't think women should be in leadership positions. And so, like, there's a lot of trauma around men. And I somehow, somehow hehe every single healing circle I end up in, I end up partnered with one of the men in the group, and there's usually only like two men in any healing circle that I'm ever in. Maybe four. And I end up partnered with them, in some of the most vulnerable and raw healing spaces. And one of the exercises that we did, we were supposed to partner up with somebody and we were allowing each other to hold space to, for somebody to release what they need to release. And you allow it to I'm going to, use the wrong words, but like filter through you, you're not taking it for them. You're not taking it on. You're allowing them to give it up. And you're a 

Tammy: Like a vessel or a conduit? 

Jenn: kind of. Yeah, kind of. Yes. And so you're we were doing this exercise where one person would let go of all of their stuff and the other person would just be the receiver, even though they weren't taking it in. And then you would switch. And when I walked in, I ended up sitting next to this man and I won't say names or anything, but I was sitting next to this man and he was very nice to me. And when men are nice to me, I get a little bit like, What do you want? What do you want? Because of my trauma. And I recognized that. And so they asked us to partner up and I go to this weird place of, oh god, I'm going to be picked last. Like, because I don't know the people in this group. 

Tammy: gym class trauma. 

Jenn: yes, Yes. There was some of that in some of these groups when we partnered off. And and he just looked at me and he's like, Hey, do you want to be my partner? And inside I was going, shit, shit, shit, shit. Why do I have to be partnered with this guy? I'm like, Why do I have to be partnered with a guy? And I told him this, He knows this. So this is not being broadcast to the world. Like I fully owned it and we did this exercise, and after the exercise, somebody else was sharing their experience and it brought up a lot of other stuff for me. And they did, a lot of the facilitators would give space at the end of these sessions where people could share, and if they needed help processing, they would help them process it. Like they would do some healing work with them and I'm sitting there and he can see and the lady who was on the other side of me can see that I'm getting more and more worked up and I'm like crying and crying and crying and crying and crying and trying not to be like (loud sob noise) this and like, make all these horrible noises. Hopefully that just did not just blow out the mics. Well, like it was these really raw emotions that were coming up for me and all of the stuff that happens when I drink cacao on a regular basis. However, I was trying to hold it down because I didn't want to be that person in the group who needed assistance and I didn't want to be this and I didn't want to be that and I was trying to stuff it down. And he just, he leaned over and he said, it's okay to ask for assistance. and the girl who was on the other side of me, she said, Let it out. Just let it out. 

Tammy: You’re going to make me cry. 

Jenn: And I'm sitting there going, umm hmm, uhh hmmm, I know, I know. But I didn't, like every time I would go to raise my hands, somebody else would start talking. And so I would lower my hand and I would make myself small again. And he'd lean over and say, Ask for assistance. You can ask, like, use your voice. And they were both on either side of me going, Use your voice, which is a huge thing for me. Like when I need help, use my voice. And so like, I had them, like cheering me on and these, like super quiet little voices, like, use your voice, Jenn. You can, you can say it. Just say it. And like, she was, the, the facilitator was going to wrap up the thing and he leaned over one more time and he said, Use your voice. And I raised my hand and I was like in full on sobs at this point. And I'm like, I need assistance. And so, like, the whole group assisted me with that, and she came and sat with me and I just wailed like I've never let myself make noise when I'm crying in groups before, like I might make a little noise, but this was like I actually had a lot of noise come out of me, which then it was like I recognized not everything was coming up yet because I was still feeling really vulnerable, but I was releasing a lot of stuff and the noises started coming out of me. Kind of made me start getting a little bit like, What the heck is going on? Like, where did that noise come from? And I started laughing because it was just, it was absurd to me that I was hanging on to this stuff for so long when I could have just let it out and been done with it. So long ago, I could have just let it out and been done with it. So I like started bawling and then I just cracked up laughing and couldn't stop. And, and it was very funny and I felt so much better. And one of the gals, the one who was sitting to the side of me, she said, I'm just going to share with you like, I see that you need to really just let yourself let it out. She said, When you're birthing something and when you're clearing something, sometimes you need to allow yourself to be raw and emotional and loud, birthing something is loud and like, it really started off my whole experience with recognizing it's okay for me to be loud. It's okay for me to let everything out. And, so it was like it was this beautiful beginning of being held by these people who didn't know me. And recognizing that I can, I can start to work with my trauma around men. And, and that man in particular was like he was in a lot of the circles with me. And I told him I was like, you are a beautiful fucking trigger to me. Like you are triggering me in so many ways and not because of you, but because of me. And I'm grateful that you're in this group with me so that I can walk through these things. And so it was like it was this experience where I could say, like, what was true for me and not have to worry that I was going to hurt somebody’s feelings like he fully understood. Like he's like, I'm here to trigger you. That's what I'm here for. Like and so we kind of had this running joke. Like every time he'd sit next to me, he'd be like, be ready to be triggered. And so it was, it was a good experience where I could let go of a lot of things and feel held and allow myself to step into the medicine of cacao and be held in that energy, but not feel like I was being forced to do the work that I wasn't ready to do. So there was a lot of that.

Tammy: It sounds like a beautiful experience. So like, what a gift to 

Jenn: Yeah 

Tammy: have a space that felt safe enough to release some of that. 

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I released so much stuff like it's not even, it's crazy how much stuff. I was like, oh, yeah, I've been hanging out of that for a long time. I think it's, it's about time I get rid of that 

Tammy: digging in all the little, like, dusty crevices in your insides there. 

Jenn: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so we, we had so much healing work that we did. We also had the opportunity to go and visit the Weavers of that area that make, like, beautiful for those who are listening. I'm showing a beautiful shawl that I have. This one was Hand-Dyed in cacao and some other flowers, and it's, it's for protection. So. So I'm wearing it so that I can feel safe sharing all my stories and whatever. But we got to meet them and we got to see how they hand dye everything, how they handle their threads, how they actually spin their threads from cotton, like they have the cotton in mass, then they actually spin it into thread and then they hand weave it with these beautiful looms that have like they’re back strap looms. Everybody can look that up online. It's really cool. There's a strap that goes around you and then you have like all these different layers of wood in front of you and you have to string all the threads through there and it's a really cool process. So they showed us how to do that, which now I want a back strap loom because why wouldn't I?

Tammy: Sounds perfectly legit! 

Jenn: And so we got to... Yes, yes. So we got to listen to these beautiful women and they were telling their stories of how they, how they use the cacao and they use the shells of the cacao to dye their fabrics. And they use the, the flowers to dye their fabrics and they take part of the banana plant stem to actually make the dyes stay in the fabrics, like it was. It was fascinating. Of course, they were speaking in Spanish. So then we had translators who would translate. For those of us who didn't fully understand. I understood some of the words, but not all of it. And we had all of these beautiful families who made us delicious meals like stone ground, fresh tortillas, and like everything from scratch and coconuts like straight from the coconut tree, which yum, yum. So which which you need coconut water because cacao is a diuretic. So you do need to have some extra nutrients in your system when you're drinking it consistently, which we drink a lot of it while we were there. So the coconuts were much needed. We also got to tour the facility where they make Keith's cacao, which is the company that, that I use their products now. And we, there were so many things that we did while we were down there. I did so many things. I got to go to the cacao forest, which I got to interact with the trees, which was a huge part of why I wanted to go there and I just sobbed underneath the trees after we did a whole

Tammy: I’m sure you were huggin’ some trees.

Jenn: yes. And I got to bring home a cacao pod from, so like I have an actual cacao fruit that one of the cacao farmers cut off the tree for me. So I have one that was specifically handed to me and I brought that home. I'm going to let it dry out and it's going to become a rattle that I can use in my healing work.

Tammy: cool! 

Jenn: The cacao beans will actually loosen from the inside and then they'll shake inside. So it will be like a legit cacao rattle. I'm so excited. I'm, I'm really hoping I can dry it appropriately, cause otherwise it will rot and that will make me sad. 

Tammy: I'm sure you’ll be able to do it. I'm hoping. 

Jenn: I'm hoping! We did fire ceremonies while we were there. We actually had Mayan fire ceremony while we were there. And actually the shirt that's on this side of me, for those who are listening, there is a hand-stitched hand beaded shirt that I purchased from the woman who was leading the Mayan fire ceremony. So one of the elders, the nan, she hand-stitched that. And I was so excited. She had two shirts there. And I was like, one of them was mine. One of them is mine, one of them's mine. And so, so I purchased that which everything that you purchased down there, like the money goes such a long way for them feeding their families and living down there, that it's so worth it. And now I have this beautiful shirt that I am hoping that I will wear when I'm doing different ceremonies and stuff. And yeah, I just had so many beautiful moments. I don't even know like what else to say. Tammy, do you have questions that can steer me so that I don't just keep babbling and you!? 

Tammy: No! This is all about hearing your experience. It's not babbling at all. I was, I was really excited that because, I mean, we generally talk all the time, but we didn't have an opportunity to talk before this. So it's been fun to hear it all as everyone else is hearing about it too, which is really cool. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Tammy: No, I mean, gosh, do I have any? Well, I do know that you had some really, really beautiful experiences while you were there, too, with connecting to Mama cacao. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that? 

Jenn: Well, it depends on which one you're talking about. 

Tammy: So it was a message you just sent me A message. It's all I know. I don't know exactly what was it? Okay. Being kept up at night with lots of messages.

Jenn: Gosh. So I, While, I was down there. I ended up getting a tattoo, which normally I don't know that I would be like, Yeah, get a tattoo in another country where you don't speak the language. Blah! Especially when they tell you not to drink the water there because it's so contaminated. And, so I met some beautiful people from all over the world and one of the gals that I was there with, she really wanted to get a hand poked tattoo. So like, hand poked with the needle, like each poke is done by hand. And so she was looking for something and I was like, I want a tattoo while I'm here. Like, I could totally do another tattoo. And I had been thinking about possibly getting like a cacao pod, but everything that I looked at was like, I don't know that that doesn't seem right. And we were walking around and we found a sign for intuitive tattoos, and so we went to that location to talk to the person and see if they were the right person. On the way there, we stopped by another booth because there was tattoo artists everywhere and we walked up and we found some really cool tattoos in her book. But the lady was just kind of like, Meh, don't care about you guys. Like she was just kind of rude to us and we're like, whatever. So we just kept walking. We went to this place and we walk in and for the two days prior when I had walked down that street, I had seen this man. And as I was walking down the street, I'm like, I don't know who that man is, but I'm very curious about him. Like something about his energy just kept getting my attention. And, and of course, I'm not going to just walk up to some dude because I, I, I assumed that he didn't necessarily speak English. Like I wasn't going to just be like, Hey, blah, blah, blah. You look interesting to me. Like, that would be weird. And so we're standing in the atrium of this place and I see this guy again, and he's the tattoo artist in the back of this atrium thing. And the gal that I was with, she looked at me and she's like, Well, I wonder, I wonder about this guy. So we walked back there and she started talking to him and he started talking and every word that came out of his mouth was something that I had journalled that morning sitting by the water and I was journaling about feeling a little bit vulnerable and feeling overwhelmed with the energies. And I was so overwhelmed that I just felt like hiding, like I just wanted to hide. And he started talking and he said he said, sometimes the energies here are so overwhelming that I just want to go home and hide. I just want to, I just want to hide. And I was like looking at him and I was like, what in the heck? Like the words coming out of your mouth or what I journal this morning. And he's like, oh interesting. And he spoke perfect English. He lived in the States for a while and he's talking more and more to us. And both me and the gal that I was with and her husband, all of us are like, There's something about this dude, like he's a shaman or something. 

Tammy: Yeah

Jenn: like there's something about this dude that both of us felt like sobbing. Like we felt so connected to his energy, and he started showing us his art, and we're connecting with him. And the gal that I was with showed him what she wanted to get done, and he's like, that's beautiful. And we ended up talking to him about Keith because he didn't know that Keith had passed away. 

Tammy: Oh, so he knew Keith.

Jenn: And he well, we ended up finding out that he actually went and sat with Keith in a healing ceremony and had these profound experiences. And like, he was just gobsmacked that Keith had passed. He said, I just saw him a month and a half ago walking down the street, like and so he was he was kind of processing with us and like all of our fear and resignation about getting a tattoo with somebody that wasn't going to mean anything, completely changed because it's like like, 

Tammy: How could it not be more aligned than that?

Jenn: Right, Exactly. Exactly. And so my friend got her tattoo the next day, and it was stunningly beautiful and it was like a cross section of a cacao bean and it looks like a mandala and it's just beautiful. And I was like, I'm kind of jealous. I kind of want that. And I told him at that time I was like, I was like, I want a tattoo. I don't know what I want yet. And so while we were in our meditations, while we were doing our ceremonies, I had this vision come up. And for those of you who have seen, like I have an Oracle deck that has actually have the cards in front of it, has a symbol on the front of it, that's a West African Adinkra, it's like a heart. And I got this image in my head of that heart with a cacao bean coming out of the bottom because that symbol is the symbol of recalling the past so you can heal from it. and like cacao was like this beautiful opening and expression of like accepting your past and moving forward and all of these beautiful things. And so I got this image and I was like, That's my tattoo. That's my tattoo. Well, He does hand poked and he does traditional, like with the electric thing. So I asked him if he could do the cacao pod hand poked and do the rest of it traditionally. And he said, Of course I can. And when I went in there, the next day to get my tattoo, I ended up finding out that he was trained to do ceremonies. So essentially he was a shaman. He was also a massage therapist at one point trained by the local Shaman. And so he would go and do fire ceremonies all the time, which everybody knows how much I love fire

Tammy: Right? 

Jenn: So so he was him and I talked for a long time. And like, everything he was saying was a mirror was a total mirror for me. And I was like, Holy crap, this is amazing. And so while he did my tattoo, he chanted. Like he did these beautiful chants and like healing words. The whole time he was doing my tattoo. And after I left there, later that night, Mama cacao and Keith came and woke me up in spirit at 230 in the morning and kept me awake for a couple hours and talk to me about messages that I needed to deliver and talk to me about. Keith talked to me about his connection with my tattoo guy and like asked me to deliver a message for him and asked me to do these beautiful things. And so it was just, it was just this beautiful coincidence, like, Hey, I need you to do this for me. I need you to go talk to him and give him this message. And I got this beautiful tattoo that was, like, infused with all kinds of beautiful healing chants and ceremony. And I got to meditate the whole time that I was getting my tattoo. I actually almost fell asleep to the point where I had to, like, straighten out my leg at one point because I was like, my leg was falling while he was trying to do the tattoo. And I was like, my leg’s not in the same position. He's like, Yeah, I think you're getting a little bit too relaxed. I was like, Okay, because I actually got the tattoo on the top of my foot, which is usually a really painful spot. So yeah, it was, it was beautiful, but so Mama cacao and Keith came in and talk to me that night and delivered all kinds of beautiful messages. And in that two, two and a half hour span of time. But that was, that was pretty consistent the whole time I was there. Like there were constantly messages coming through and constantly learning moments and experiences that, I there's no way I can just make it up. There's no way. There's no way. 

Tammy: It's so cool

Jenn: yeah, yeah

Tammy: I can, I can see, as you were sharing it, like how meaningful all this was, I mean, it sounds, you said a little bit ago like this beautiful coincidence. I'm like, none of this is coincidental. This is all very, very purposeful. But I can see how, how healing and how, I don't know. I just I think this is another good opportunity because clearly, if cacao is supposed to be out there and connecting with people who need that deep healing or who are prepared, want to go down that route, you know, getting it out there further, I think is a great, a great idea, too. 

Maybe we'll have to talk a little bit more about it sometime soon, but 

Jenn: yeah. Yeah. 

Tammy: Thank you for sharing. 

Jenn: Of course. 

Tammy: I mean, well, I know we'll continue to have conversations about it even if it’s not on the podcast. 

Jenn: Yeah, well, and if anybody is curious about cacao or they're curious about the products or anything, they can just reach out to me or we can we can put a link in there too for people so that they can they can try the products or they can find out more about ceremony or I'm willing to answer questions like this is something that's a passion of mine that has been for a long time.

I just now I'm actually a practitioner of it, so I can actually talk about it with a little bit more knowledge and give people the do's and don'ts. Because there are some do's and don'ts because I mean, it's plant medicine and 

Tammy: sure

Jenn: it affects people in different ways. So if people have questions, feel free to ask. I'm more than willing to answer so yeah. 

Tammy: Sounds amazing 

Jenn: Thank you for letting me blabber about all of this stuff. 

Tammy: Yes, I hope everyone else is just as excited to hear about it as I was. 

Jenn: Yeah

Tammy: But we will continue more great conversations next week and we will see all of our lovely woo-mates then!

Jenn: Okay, bye everybody.

Tammy: Bye everyone! If you want more, woo! Please feel free to check the links in the description. Of course, we love hearing from you so keep letting us know all of your lovely ideas. Have a beautiful day, our wonderful woo-mates.