S2 Ep 2: Living a Life That Triggers You

In this episode, Jenn and Tammy interview Daniel about the many triggers of life. 

Daniel is a  long time student of A Course in Miracles, father, Business owner, business Partner in Xina Allen, LLP as well as a teacher in and student of life.  He has explored many facets of what it is like to work through your triggers, whether it has been through life experience, inner spiritual work or through books. This episode talks about triggers as a gift and an opportunity for us to look at our deepest belief systems. If you find yourself triggered often, this may be the episode to help you find your way through them and expanding your mind!   

For more information on just one of the tools that Daniel has used in his spiritual growth practice, go to the Xina Allen partnership website and check out the amazing energy attunements they offer. www.xinaallen.com 

Resources from this episode: 
Book shout outs: 
A Course in Miracles by Helen Schucman
The Ego is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday

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Transcript

Jenn: Hey, everybody. I'm Jenn. 

Tammy: And I'm Tammy. 

Jenn: And they call us Woo!

Jenn: Well, welcome back, everybody, Today. We have a special guest with us. His name is Daniel. He is an amazing human being that has actually taught me a lot since I met him. And that's part of the reason why I asked if he would be willing to come on the show today, because there are a lot of perspectives that he has learned throughout his life because of experiences that he's had. He is an amazing human being who studies ACIM, which is A course in miracles. He's a father of two beautiful human beings. He's a business owner and a business partner in a company called Xina Allen LLP, and he's joining us today to talk about triggers, which is really funny because I was. 

Tammy: Do we need to put a trigger warning on this? 

Jenn: Maybe. I was looking at the the last episode and I actually was talking about some of the triggers and some things in the last episode. So I was like, yes, we're kind of just leading into this. So I'm super excited to have Daniel tell us. Well, first we're going to start with what the heck is a trigger? 

Daniel: I guess that's my my time to jump in. So a trigger, a trigger is really any time you come across something, be it a person, could be a pace, situation, could be an idea that, that causes you to lose your peace. It causes some level of upset in you and it's really it's a gift of something that you need to look at and inquire within to say, why is it that this is bothering me? Because that's really what it is. It's, you know, your, your, your physical body, your intuition, your conscience, whatever you want to call your inner guidance is saying, hey, you got to take a look at this something doesn't feel right about how you're how you're thinking about this situation. And that's that's what a trigger does. And it's meant to get your attention, and rightfully so. They always do. 

Jenn: I was thinking, like some people, when they're triggered, they put their hand up. But it's a completely different gesture of like, I'm thinking about people being triggered in the car, like when somebody cuts you off or all those things. Those are like triggers that people see on a regular basis. But there's other triggers, too, like a lot of things that are normal for us that we don't recognize as triggers all the time. And I guess one of the things, I know Daniel's back story, but I want you to tell us a little bit more about why is somebody going to listen to you talking about triggers? Like what, What makes you think you can talk about this? To sound all sassy pants.

Tammy: Who are you? 

Jenn: Yeah, who are you? 

Daniel: That is I mean, that's a really good and a really valid question. And I, I don't think it matters if you hear this for me, if you hear it from someone else, whoever is listening to this, you're tuning in because you're meant to hear this for some reason. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you hear it from me or you read it in a book or you figure it out on your own. What it, what it really comes down to is when people get triggered, they're not operating in their best capacity. They've lost their sense of peace. They're feeling the fight, flight, freeze, modes of being that, you know, kind of the real animalistic reptilian brain responses that we have to a given situation. And I don't think people like that. I don't like that. And like I said, it doesn't matter if you hear it from me, but at the end of the day, if there, if there is a way that you can navigate these situations and not have them be as painful as they sometimes are. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Daniel: You would be a fool not to want to learn how to do that. Like it would be. It would be crazy to say, I hate triggers, but I can't. I can't wait to be triggered again and decide not to find a better way to deal with it. Right. Because life is coming at us every day. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Daniel: And learning how to deal with that can only benefit you not only in the short term, but in the long term as well.

Tammy: Yeah, I know. I've talked about this in the past, but my husband is a prime example of that. Having dealt with a lot of very traumatic things in his life and witnessing a level of trigger that I don't think I've witnessed before in him where it would be like, like a complete dissociation, just this like frantic, like I got to get, I got to get out of here in this repetition of these things that like what was happening in his head was not happening in everybody else's reality. But it triggered into this response of this like intense, like you said, almost like animalistic, like fear. And yeah, I mean, all of the work that he's done and what you're saying is really not far off from his therapist's advice and stuff like that, too. I mean, the, the process of the therapy he's been through was really allowing him to sit with those. And she has done all different types of stuff with them. But rather than avoiding them, I'm like, you're saying, allowing him to sit with those so he's able to feel through it and then figure out how to get out the other side and figure out how to address that and stuff like that. So then every time this thing, because it could have been something as simple as me just saying something that triggered him into a whole different world. Right? And how do you live like that? How do you have that happen all the time? He live like that for so many years and he is so much happier having addressed those rather than avoided them, because now he's not only able to work through them, but they don't happen as often. And when they do happen, he can identify them and then he can start to get those wheels spinning of like, okay, well, what is actually happening right now? How do I figure out how to address this? And oftentimes she would bring it back to giving, which this might be something you're going to talk about, too, giving that little inner person, whatever that little inner person needed to feel safe and secure and loved. So instead of like, let's just push through and avoid this and pretend it's not happening, like, what am I missing? What do I need to give myself so this doesn't feel so icky all the time? And I don't think I've ever experienced the intensity level of triggers and with people until I've been with him. And I don't know why you'd want to live like that all the time. I think that it was, it was exhausting. It was an exhausting way to live, and it was exhausting for him to try to avoid them, too.

Daniel: And so that's that's a really good point, because in in our everyday life, we are bombarded with ways to avoid looking at the stuff in our life that really we need to look at and and, you know, you're saying like, how push it off and and that's really the thing, right? Like I noticed from my old life, I have, you know, background information about me. I mean, I have gone through three different like mental breakdowns, which all required some type of, you know, medical I don't know if you all call it hospitalization or some type of medical intervention, intervention to help me out of the situation I got myself in. And looking back, I can clearly see that as I was not addressing the things that I needed to address. And as I would find ways to avoid it, disguise it, escape from it through, you know, self-medicate or whatever the case may be. And everybody has their own escape devices, whether it's, you know, alcohol, drugs, shopping, food, exercise, sex. I, people have lots of things that they do to avoid looking at the stuff in their life that's really causing them discomfort. And they think, well, as long as I keep it at bay, I can avoid it. Well, you can't avoid it forever because it just keeps building up. It keeps building up.  Until it gets to this breaking point where everything kind of comes through and then you're left to pick up the pieces. You know, you're getting washed away with the flood of stuff that you refuse to address. And, you know, so I guess on the topic of triggers, it's like, it's really important for people when they recognize a trigger to say, oh, this is bothering me. I need to look at why. And and, you know, like I mentioned earlier, it's like our society is really good at providing coping mechanism by which people can avoid looking at their stuff. 

Tammy: Yeah. 

Daniel: Because at the end of the day, I mean, people don't want to look at their stuff. They're scared of it in some ways, right? You're scared you're going to be triggered.

Tammy: My stuff is way scarier than other people's stuff. 

Daniel: Yeah. And we think like, gosh, we're a horrible person. If everybody knew what a bad person I was, nobody would ever like me. Well, that's. That's you saying that you don't like you and you're projecting that belief onto other people. But the fact of the matter is, if people actually looked at their life and looked at it kind of in the long term and said, gosh, you know, I when I was in my twenties, when I was in my thirties, I made some really bad decisions. But at the time that was the best decision I thought I had available to me. I didn't know any better. It's not like it's not like people bemoan the fact that when they were kids they would, you know, when they're toddlers and they poop in their pants. It's like nobody carries that along with them to say, Gosh, I can't believe at three I pooped my pants when I didn't have a diaper on. Like, nobody carries that with them, but they carry with them this idea of like, I'm a bad person because I did this in my twenties and I should've known better. Well, you didn't know better. So why, why carry along, carry around the guilt? 

Tammy: When you look at it from a broader perspective and you get to the place where it's not it's no longer a good or bad choice it was just a choice. It feels a lot better because, like you said, then you're not judging yourself for that. But if you're not at that place, it's just going to keep on coming up over and over and over again. And I do think as much as there's a piece of me that really understands and respects that you don't want to be intentionally like, mean or hurtful towards other people, I do think that one of the flip sides of the technology that we have now in the way that we view triggers is that we need to avoid them at all costs. Otherwise, that makes us a bad person for having triggered someone else. And I think kind of like to your point, that takes away someone's autonomy, that takes away their control over their own selves and how they are able to navigate this life that's saying like, well, now I don't have any choice but to be like, feel terrible all the time. And I just have to avoid anyone who would make me feel terrible versus like, I want to feel better. So how do I do that? 

Daniel: Well, so this is this is such a this is such a great point that you touched on. So we have this idea in our minds that we don't want to hurt people's feelings. And I, I wholeheartedly agree. Nobody should go around trying, intentionally, to ruin someone else's better. Like that. Nobody should be doing that. I don't. I don't think that's. I don't think that's beneficial to, to other people. I don't think it's beneficial to themselves. But at the same time, I know wholeheartedly. I am not responsible if you get triggered. And the reason I say it is this. I don't know what's going to trigger you. If you're triggered, it's not like I reached inside and flipped a switch inside of you to trigger you. Right? I don't have that control. And if you’re getting triggered, it's your trigger. You're the one that flipped the switch inside of you. And I think that's the thing that people,

People don't fully understand that. They think that they're responsible for how someone else feels. And at the end of the day, we don't have that power. I don't know, like, if I cross the street, if that's going to upset someone or not, it doesn't mean I'm going to stay in my house and never cross the street because I'm worried I'm going to upset someone. I'm going to do what I what I feel to be what I feel called to do. And I'm going to, I'm going to show up authentically and be myself. And I think if everybody did that and if everybody was looking at themselves to say, hey, this bothered me, why is it bothering me not blaming the other person but checking in on themselves like, man, why does that? Why does that agitate me? You change the dynamic of how relationships work. 

Tammy: Yeah

Daniel: because right now, they work very differently. 

Tammy: It can still be a conversation. It can still be a conversation of. I felt this way when you said that. I am trying to figure out why I felt this way, but it could be really useful. That's a good way to look at it, because I think it could be useful information then that the other person could add to it. Like, oh, well, this is what I said and did so let me assist you in a way that feels different than me just avoiding this, ever saying this thing again is and more so like, how can I give you real assistance so I can support you as you're working through whatever this is versus just avoiding it? And I do think that honestly, I think that balance needs to be had because the reason it's so popular now for everyone to avoid the triggers is frankly because so many people were jerks in the past, intentional jerks, I think, in some ways. But we kind of like swung really far the other direction. So instead of like, let's figure out why we feel these ways. Why do I feel this way when someone says, or does this thing? we're giving our power away, left and right to feel better on a deeper level. Because like you said, if someone crossing the street triggers you, you're never going to be able to avoid someone crossing the street for the rest of your life. And if you do, what kind of I mean, what kind of life is that really? Is that a life you're really going to enjoy? Probably not, because then you're stuck in your own house all the time, so you avoid people crossing the street. 

Jenn: I think it's interesting to look at what the two of you just said because it is all about conversation and it's about creating space for people to be honest and truthful and look at their stuff while also recognizing what's going on in the perception of what's outside of them. So a lot of the time we avoid those conversations. We have a conflict with somebody because we were triggered about something and we sit there and we internalize it and we make it bigger until you just can't contain it any more. And then it turns into this big blow up with whoever that was with or not. It just gets avoided. And that conversation may not happen. And if that conversation doesn't happen, nobody has the opportunity to grow from that. And I think one of the things that I've learned about Daniel over the years is he is honest to, he is always honest. If there's something that comes up, he addresses it. If there's a trigger or there's something that's going on, he addresses it and is honest about it. And if somebody tells him their perspective, he will meet them with that and have a conversation. And I think that that is it's one of the things that I've learned from him. If you are being honest and you are being authentic, even if you're having this conflict, this conversation can resolve it. As long as that conversation is met on both ends and it does give you the opportunity to look at your shit. It does give the other person the opportunity to look at their shit. But it doesn't have to ruin relationships. It doesn't have to ruin things. It's, It's about that conversation and that connection within yourself and outside of yourself. 

Tammy: And there's maybe a piece of that, too, of I appreciate honesty. And I think honesty is very loving. True honesty. Being honest with someone doesn't, doesn't mean being mean. Like, sometimes people conflate those. It doesn't mean if you're having a conversation with someone about being triggered or something that's really bothering you. It doesn't have to be like a brawl. It doesn't have to be confrontational that way. And if the other person is really, truly a supportive person or is in the space to support you honesty is, I think, one of the most loving gifts you can give to somebody. That's part of the reason that I really do enjoy having people in my life. I've talked about this before who are on the autism spectrum. Often, more often than not, there's a there's a seed of what you might call brutal honesty, but it's really not brutal. It's just you don't have to guess. You just know what's happening in the person's head because there's not as much of that like social. When the person really trust you, there's not as much of that social masking or like even understanding the social cues. So you get what you ask for. But there's something that is also really loving and special about that because those people are the ones that will, when they give you a compliment, it's the nicest compliment in the world because it's coming from a real place. When you ask them a question, you don't have to guess whether or not their responses are true. But also that moves into the space like you're talking about with triggers where it's like you can also have more challenging conversations sometimes and know, that the person they're honesty means love. It's not like they're going to just hate you for telling the truth about what's going on and they're going to be honest with their feelings too. And I don't know if everybody wants that sometimes, and maybe that's part of why it feels hard for people to have these conversations when they feel triggered. Because if you're not ready to look at it, you might not want to hear that. You might. 

Daniel: Well, and that's that's a that's really a good point, because the reason as I understand the reason why, when you get triggered, you're triggered is because it is something it is a belief that you have that is out of alignment with love that you are seeing in someone else. And it's something that you believe being shown back to you. And it's jarring. It's jarring to see like, oh my gosh, like I have this belief that's unloving that I didn't even know I had. And that's where, you know, comparing it to your internal guidance or however, however you want to look at that. That dynamic is, is super important because what your what you what you can end up doing is you can end up realizing that, hey, I'm, there's something in me that's out of alignment. This person is giving me the gift of showing me something. And I don't even know what it is yet. I have to do some excavation in my mind and figure out why it is that this bothers me. And from my experience, you end up coming into contact with people that are always showing you stuff about yourself. You're always interacting with people that are showing you what you believe. And we know that we live in this, dualistic world of good and bad, you know, light and dark, etc. And when you have beliefs that are out of accord, you're going to meet someone that either shows you directly that that belief is out of accord because you're going to see them doing the same thing or you're going to see what I would consider to be like your opposite, reflecting that back to you. Right. So for example, if someone is, if someone is, let's say they don't stand up for themselves, right, they might end up in a relationship with someone who's more domineering, someone who's, who is going to kind of take advantage of them and they're going to be taken advantage of. And what ends up happening is, is that they end up learning from each other that the person who is taken advantage of sees what it's like from the other person, how to stand up for themselves. The other person has seen what it's like to, you know, for someone to be more submissive. So they kind of each, each person ends up learning something from that dynamic. What ends up happening, though, is you have someone who's domineering and they'll see someone else who's really domineering and they'll be like, oh that person. They're they're all they're they're such an ass and blah, blah, blah, because that person is reflecting back to them. What it is that how it is that they are. So that person gets victimized because this other person has that same belief that it's okay to dominate someone or to, to run them over, metaphorically. 

Jenn: Yeah, No, don't...Well, I was thinking about this as you were talking, because we've had conversations in the past about, like my own beliefs. And I know Tammy and I have talked about a lot of these things as well, how there have been beliefs in my own past where it's like I've held this belief for a long time that because of my woo wooness, I'm weird or because of whatever, and that's 

Tammy: You are weird, but it's awesome. It's the best kind.

Jenn: But see, like, those are the things that a lot of the time we just kind of take it for granted that that's, that's our experience. Like my experience has been that people think I'm weird or that I'm just woo woo Jenn or whatever the story is I'm telling that other people are saying about me. And one of the things but Daniel has so honestly put it in front of my face is that a lot of the time those stories that I've been saying, are actually the stories that I'm creating inside. They're the things that I'm telling myself and without the people that I'm seeing outside of me showing me these things, I would never look at those beliefs. I would never look at my mindset and start going, oh, maybe I need to change the way that I'm thinking about this. Maybe I need to stop and think about that trigger when that person said this to me about being weird, that triggered me to feel whatever I was feeling, but it stopped me so that I had to look at my stuff. And since I've been learning from Daniel, I have been starting to look at those beliefs and starting to look at those triggers and start to try to change my mindset. And I say, try. And I said that intentionally because I'm still working on it. But I think that that's one of the things that we often miss, is that we're not actually taking the time to look at our own stuff. We might notice we're triggered and sometimes we don't take that time. And so I would love to hear. Daniel, how did you how did you start working on your mindset? How did you start looking at the triggers and turning those around for yourself so that you could see things as a gift rather than a trigger that you have to deal with and like? Because you do, you look at things and you're like, This is such a gift to me.

Daniel: So yeah, that's a really good question. I'll say it. It hasn't happened overnight when I had kind of my last mental breakdown or whatever you want to call it, um, maybe I'll change that and start calling it my awakening. I ended up coming across or through an Amazon recommendation to book A Course in Miracles. And when I initially started to read that it was back and gosh, maybe August, September timeframe of 2016, I started to read it and I was like, pfffft, this is too much. Over my head. And I ended up getting a couple other books that I ended up reading. One was The Ego is the Enemy. I think. I forget the author's name and maybe a couple others, and I went back to a Course in Miracles around November timeframe, and it just all clicked. I was like, my gosh. Like, this is the book I've been looking for. Like, this is the manual on how our life really works. It's a very dense read and it, it if people are interested in checking it out, like I have no necessarily affiliation with that except that I use it in my life because it helps. So for what it's worth, going back to the question though, So of course, In Miracles has been kind of what I've been studying since 2016 and not only like studying but implementing in my life and I've seen a noticeable change. The biggest thing that just off the cuff recommendation I'd have for people is that if you are triggered, regardless of what the trigger is, you've got to try to get yourself out of the trigger. That could mean taking a pause, removing yourself from the situation. I was actually, actually feeling triggered before this phone call. I was feeling like anxiety not related to this about something else that's going on in my life 

Tammy: We’re scary. I know it. 

Daniel: (laughter) uh, where I was like, I've I've got to go, you know, no. I was actually feeling crunched for time, like I didn't have enough time. Which is great because it shows that I've got this belief and time and whatever else. But so I remove myself from the situation. I'm like, I'm going to go for a little ten minute walk before this call and, and kind of reset my mind and get myself out of that, that mental state of fight or flight. So I did that and and the gift there is is taking a pause. Right stopping, stopping this momentum of what it is and the trigger is meant to get your attention. Right? And often times we think, we rightfully think something is wrong, like I shouldn't feel this way, something's wrong. So we're very quick to make that connection.We then typically think, well, THAT person is the problem there. They did this to me. 

Jenn: Stop pointing at me. 

Daniel: So, so they test people do make the connection that something's wrong and I need to change something. But typically the response is I need to change that thing outside of me because I don't like it. The true step is what inside of me needs to change so that I'm not bothered by it. And that's really the key. The first step, though, is just stopping, stopping and moving, removing yourself from that situation in whatever form you can. You know, if you're if you're at a dinner event, maybe it's like up, I need to go to the bathroom and lock yourself away in the bathroom to, like, collect your thoughts. But to get out of that, that mental state of, of, of a fight or fleet, flight. I mean, that's, that's kind of the first big step that I would say people need to consider. And for me, I have lots of practice over, on this over the years. And once I got to that point where I realized, hey, okay, I'm recognizing I'm triggered, there's something in me, I kept saying, there's got to be a gift in this for me. There's got to be a gift on this. What is the gift of this? And it was interesting. I actually had a situation where any time I would get an email from a certain person at work, I was like, they just sent me another email. What do they want? And it was, it was so crazy. One day I got another email on my and I got up and I went into the kitchen and I'm like, And I said to myself, I said, There's got to be a gift in this relationship somewhere. And as soon as I did that, I went back and I was like, There is a gift in this. I responded to the email to the person and literally I have not heard from them to this day. They completely dropped out of my life. And, and I guess the point I want to illustrate with this is, is that once you deal with a trigger to the point that it's no longer a trigger, it'll drop away. It will fall away from your life. You're not going to have you're not going to have it be a problem anymore. And in many cases, if there was someone that you contracted pre life to bring this up to you. Once that contract's fulfilled, they'll, they'll fall away from your life and not in a bad way 

Jenn: Peace out. 

Daniel: Yeah, not a bad way. Just that like you've learned what you, what you needed to learn from that situation and you can move on to bigger and better things. 

Tammy: Yeah. It's interesting thinking about all of that. Well, the the one piece of it being that people are in your lives, in your life for different reasons, and it all is for your good. Ultimately, I like what you're saying. It's all. It's all a gift, whether it's an uncomfortable relationship or otherwise. But the basis of all of this, even though I am positive there's people who are going to be triggered by this conversation. 

Jenn: Yup. 

Daniel: but I kind of hope so, honestly. I hope so, because 

Tammy: it's, it's, it's good, though. Like the basis,

Daniel: Unless they see it, they'll never be able to deal with it.

Tammy: Right. And the basis of all of this is self-love and grace because it's you know, you think about it like think about these triggers like, like a little kid who's really upset, right? Like screaming and crying is yelling at that little kid or ignoring that little kid. Going to make them feel any better. No. Is giving them a little warm hug and being like, you know what? You don't have to be afraid. Is that going to make them feel better? Probably. That's probably going to be the best thing. And we can see that from an outside perspective, right, of dealing with other people, dealing with our children or whatever. But how do we do that for ourselves? Because these triggers, they are something inside ourselves, but often we're not viewing it as like, if we're avoiding it, we're not really loving it. We're neglecting that little kid who's crying. We're saying, your tears don't matter, your pain doesn't matter. We're just going to pretend it's not happening. That child is going to continue crying. That child is going to continue feeling terrible or even worse, that child will stop crying and not have feelings anymore, which is like a whole different level of bad at that point.Right. 

Daniel: Or you give them a cand, you get a candy and now they think, anytime I feel bad, I need to eat candy to feel better. 

Tammy: Right? 

Daniel: And so we end up without knowing and training people into these situations where they get triggered and they say, I got to go buy some candy. 

Tammy: Right. 

Daniel: Let me go on to Amazon to buy something or Hey, can you grab me a beer?

I mean, that's that's really kind of what where we have gotten to in society and I, I really liked what you were saying earlier, and I guess I just imagined, like like not knowing that you have this trigger, right? Like, let's say you've got like, you know, you said like loving yourself and and and loving. Well, just loving yourself. Well, to love yourself, you need to know who you are, right? And if you've got these beliefs inside of you that are incongruent with who you truly are, you really need to look at them so that you can extract them and then fully love yourself. Like if I have a leaky pipe in the wall and I don't know it, that's a problem that's just going to continue to grow because it's continuing to leak water in the wall. Right. So it's like you really you really have to have to be willing to say, okay, well, I see there's some water on the floor. I don't know what it is. I'm just going to wipe it up. Then it’s like, I've got some more water on the floor. I'm just going to wipe it up. And eventually you have to say Why do I have all this water on the floor? Like, where is it coming from? And by then you might have to, like, rip out the wall and find out what's going on with your plumbing, because there might be something really wrong. And, and I think that's how we see things kind of manifesting in our bodies a lot of times that we are out of accord with what is loving and true. And we we push it off and we push it off and we ignore it and all these different ways. And then our body, our, you know, our our physical feedback system ends up creating some type of dis-ease that is really meant to get our attention and be like we got a problem here. Like, you need to look at this. Yeah, you're you're growing a six and a seven toll on your left foot. Like there's something you got to take a look at here and you can't ignore it at that point. Right. 

Jenn: Move away from the power lines. 

Daniel: Yeah. And that's what it is that our our bodies are feedback systems. That's, it's literally a communication device not only for you to communicate outward to other people, but for your your subconscious mind to communicate back to your conscious mind, things that you're unaware of. And that's the challenging part, right? Because we stuff all this stuff down, will we hide it from ourselves? And. And we're not doing ourselves or anybody else any favors by not recognizing where we're being untrue to ourselves, unloving to ourselves, and where we're not addressing the things that we need to take a look at.

Jenn: Yeah. Hey, everybody. If you want to hear more about this topic, we will be continuing this next week. So stay tuned.

Tammy: If you want more, woohoo! Please feel free to check the links in the description. Of course we love hearing from you so keep letting us know all of your lovely ideas. Have a beautiful day, our wonderful woo-mates.